This is a rush transcript of ‘Fox News Sunday’ on May 7, 2023. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Shannon Bream.
A mass shooting in Texas leaves families facing heartbreak and Americans asking what it will take to stop the violence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (voice-over): A gunman opens fire at a mall in Dallas taking at least eight lives and sending frightened people running.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All you hear is like 50 to 60 gun shots.
BREAM: It is the latest terrifying incident reigniting the debate over gun reforms in America.
And the Biden administration braces for a border surge ahead of the end of Title 42.
ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, DHS SECRETARY: The border is not open. It has not been opened, and it will not be opened subsequent to May 11th.
BREAM: The Homeland Security secretary downplaying expected chaos ahead of the end of COVID era rules that helped managed millions showing up at the border.
And as thousands prepare to cross our southern border now, the White House says it's got a plan, but Republicans say communities along the border and beyond are being pushed to the breaking point.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: This is not a Texas problem. This is a United States problem.
BREAM: Republican Governor Greg Abbott is here only on "FOX News Sunday".
And we'll also get reaction from border state Democrat, Congressman Henry Cuellar.
Then, in just days, President Biden will meet with House and Senate leaders to hash out a plan to address the looming debt ceiling crisis after months of fighting in the press.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It is time for the speaker and the MAGA Republicans to stop the brinksmanship.
SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): House Republicans voted for a plan and Joe Biden is missing in action.
BREAM: What happens to your wallet if they don't make a deal?
I'll sit down with a House Republican leading budget efforts, Congressman Jodey Arrington, on what it will take to end this risky stalemate.
Plus, the White House prepares to boost the profile of Vice President Harris as the president's age becomes a factor in 2024. We'll ask our Sunday panel whether she'll be a boost or a drag on the ticket, as the president and his son now both face whistleblower allegations.
All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BREAM (on camera): Hello from FOX News in Washington.
We begin with that breaking news out of Texas. At least eight people killed after authorities say a gunman opened fire at an outlet mall. It happened yesterday afternoon in Allen, Texas, north of Dallas. At least seven additional people were injured including a five-year-old. Police say an officer just happened to be nearby, heard the shots, engaged and killed the suspect.
Hundreds of shoppers were in the area as it all unfolded. President Biden has been briefed. White House says it is offering support.
It all comes just over a week since a different gunman killed five people execution style at a home in Cleveland, Texas, and it comes as Texas has been preparing for the expected end of Title 42 restrictions at the border this week.
Joining us now, Texas Republican Governor Greg Abbott.
Governor, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday".
We'll get to the border in just a minute, but we want to start with that tragic shooting.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: Well, Shannon, obviously, this is just devastating. Texans are hurting today. And the people who are hurting the most obviously are the families of the victims, families who lost loved one, families who have a loved one who is injured.
And our main priority right now is to help and support those families in the Allen community. And I'll be going up to Allen later today to begin the process of providing hope and healing.
But I got to tell you, there are questions that are lingering that the families want answers to, and that is, why did this happen? Why did that gunman do this? How did this happen? And I know that those families need answers as quickly as possible.
And then the last thing I'll tell you, and I just want to reiterate -- my gratitude and the gratitude of all Texans for the swift response of that police officer, with just a single police officer who had to confront that dangerous gunman, and did the right thing by taking swift action to eliminate the gunman, and we are grateful for that officer's heroism.
BREAM: Absolutely, truly a hero -- the very definition.
As happens with these shootings, it almost immediately turns to the political conversation about gun reforms. One state senator pointing the finger at you and the GOP there in Texas saying there are loose and dangerous gun laws.
I want to put up a poll that we just had on possible gun reforms here in the U.S. This is just out from Fox News. When you ask people what they would favor, background checks for guns, enforcing existing gun laws, legal age to 21, requiring mental health checks, flagging people for danger to self, all of those score at more than 80 percent.
Are there things that you would consider in Texas or that you think Congress should consider at a federal level along those lines?
ABBOTT: Well, on the federal level, as you know, some laws were passed last year to begin to address this. At the state level, listen, this is something that we have been grappling with over the past year, and there are some potential easy solutions such as passing -- also we're working on right now to get guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals and to increase penalties for criminals to possess guns.
But, Shannon, we need to recognize the reality, that what we've seen across the United States over the past year or two, and that is an increased number of shootings in both red states and blue states. Shannon, we've seen an increased number of shootings in states with easy gun laws as well as states with very strict gun laws.
I think that the state in which the largest number of victims have occurred this year is in California where they have very tough gun laws were 11 people died. And so, one thing that we can observe very easily and that is there has been a dramatic increase in the amount of anger and violence that's taking place in America.
And what Texas is doing in a big-time way, we are working to address that anger and violence by going to its root cause which is addressing the mental health problems behind it. We know that Texas had been lagging in mental health for years, and that's why over the past three sessions, we've added almost $25 billion to address mental health. We're in the waning days of a session right now where we will be adding even more funding, about $3 billion to address mental health needs in the state of Texas, especially in rural Texas and especially for children in schools.
And people want a quick solution. The long-term solution here is to address the mental health issue.
And one last thing about this, Shannon, and that is it truly seems today that America is more divided than we've been in decades. And we've got to find a way in this country where we can once again reunite Americans as Americans and come together as one big family. In that regard, find ways to reduce violence in our country.
BREAM: Yeah. I mean, there are certainly divisions over any number of heated topics including this one.
I want to get the border because Title 42 lifts this week. We're already -- we've known for months, for years, the border has been a problem.
DHS Secretary Mayorkas was down there this week. He says the border is closed. It will remain closed after Title 42. He says there's only so much he could do because Congress is not getting the job done.
But the White House is also pointing the finger of blame at you. A senior administration as part of a memo that came out Friday said this: We are expediting the process to quickly remove individuals who don't have a lawful basis to stay. Governor Abbott is instead busing those migrants to cities all across America, making the work harder.
Your response?
ABBOTT: Well, first of all, the reason why we are busing those migrants across the country is because small little towns on the border like Del Rio and Eagle Pass, they have no capacity to deal with the number of people coming across the border, and we have to relieve the congestion in those small communities and bus them to larger communities. By the way, communities that are sanctuary cities.
That said, Shannon, it must be pointed out also, everything that you just said that Mayorkas said is just a flat out lie or total ignorance. He says that the border is closed. Everybody in America knows that the border is not closed and it's more open.
Also, you said this is an issue that we've been grappling with first years and there's no clear answers from the federal government.
That is incorrect, Shannon, because the fact the matter is three years ago, we had the fewest border crossings in decades because the federal government under President Trump was able to put into place very easy policies such as the remain in Mexico policy, the Title 42 policy, end catch-and-release, and building a border wall, and sending a message that the country was closed. And that's why we have the fewest border crossings in decades.
Only when Biden came in and eliminated all those policies and put down a welcome back -- welcome mat to the entire world that the border is now open, that we suddenly have the chaos that has caused solely by policies put into place by Joe Biden.
BREAM: I want to quickly ask you about the 1,500 active-duty troops that are going to go to the border. You've said it's really not going to make it different. Republicans have said it's theater.
But you welcome the help back in 2018 when President Trump sent it. So, what's different this time?
ABBOTT: Because President Trump sent soldiers to the border to secure the border. President Biden is sending 1,500, quote, soldiers to do paperwork, and he's not going to secure the border.
We not need 1,500 soldiers. We need 15,000 or 150,000 to secure the border because of the open border policies of the Biden administration.
This is a day late and tens of thousands of soldiers too few.
BREAM: Governor Abbott, we appreciate your time. Thank you, sir.
ABBOTT: Thank you, Shannon.
BREAM: Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar, also from Texas, closer to the border there.
Welcome back to "FOX News Sunday", sir.
REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D-TX): Thank you and good morning to you.
BREAM: I want to get your thoughts as well on the shooting yesterday in Texas, following just quickly on the heels of one a little bit more than a week ago. Uvalde, so many of these, you know, church shootings and others to come to mind.
Where do we go from here when people don't feel safe at malls, at churches, at schools or at home?
CUELLAR: Yes. And, first of all, to -- you know, to the families, our thoughts, our prayers, and hopefully they'll be able to heal.
Second of all, we need to find out answers exactly what happened here. And, again, we need to find out. There's always a reason why certain people, and there's always -- there's always telltale signs before there's indicators that we should have looked at for.
But, again, to the law enforcement that put a stop to this -- you know, again, I thank them. And we've seen this in Uvalde. We saw that in my district, Sutherland Springs sometime ago, at a church. And it's one of those things that we need to look at.
And again, it's making sure we get at the root problems, and I do agree with the governor. You know, mental health is one of the things. That's why at the federal level, we've added billions of dollars for mental health.
And if people talk about just, you know, making the laws stricter, you've got to look at, you know, in states that are blue, very strict laws, you still get this type of mass shootings. So, it does happen across the nation, and we have to get to the bottom of this.
BREAM: Absolutely.
You are here to talk about the border as well. So let's talk about what we heard from Secretary Mayorkas. He says the border is closed. It's not going to open after Title 42 lifts this week. You heard the governor say that's absolutely not true.
Here's what the Border Patrol union tweeted out: Don't believe anything the White House says. The last 10 days, 7,700 arrests per day. Title 42 hasn't ended yet, and it's going to get worse. Seven hundred percent increase over normal day during Obama and Trump administrations. We have lying propagandists running this country and DHS right now.
Who is telling the truth, Congressman?
CUELLAR: You know, surely, we are seeing people coming in, the border is open. There are some policies that in my opinion should have been implemented some years ago. We need to have a very simple thing at the border, repercussions. That is people that are supposed to stay here, should be able to stay under the law.
And if they have to be returned, they have to be returned quickly. You got to have some repercussions because if you don't repercussions at the border, people are going to see the border as a speed bump, and they'll be coming in at this time. So we've got to have repercussions at the border.
And remember, I know a lot of times they say, well, the immigration system is broken. The immigration system is broken. Yes, we do need to have immigration reform.
But keep in mind, President Obama, you know, for the folks that were not supposed to be here actually deported more people than President Trump. So there's a way that you can have law and order at the border and still respect the legitimate -- and I emphasized the word legitimate -- asylum claims.
BREAM: I want to read something from one of the president's Democratic challengers. This is RFK Jr. who says we have to think about what's drawing the people here. In a tweet earlier this week, he said in part, he said, in large part, it is U.S. policies that create desperate condition south of the border.
He went on to add: It is inhumane and hypocritical to deny immigration while creating the conditions that drive immigration.
That's what critics say this administration is doing, though, creating a magnet, creating the conditions.
What do you say?
CUELLAR: Well, look, there are pull factors and push factors.
Push factors, of course, are certain conditions all across the world. In the old days, it was Mexican single male adults who would come in to come work. Then in 2000s, you had Central American countries.
And then lately you had people from Venezuela, Nicaragua, Cuba that know that the U.S. doesn't have a good working relationship with that country, it's hard to send those people back.
And then, of course, lately, at the border, you have over 60 countries that are represented. It's almost like a mini U.N. down there because there's so many people, name the -- Africa, you know, the Middle East, China, Vietnam, they are coming in because, again, there are push factors in those countries but there's also pull factors.
And the pull factors is what I said that the beginning -- if you don't have consequences at the border, it doesn't matter what you do. They're going to keep coming.
BREAM: Well, the numbers are exponentially higher under this administration. I mean, that's just hard data.
So, what are your conversations with the White House like about the fact that people think, no matter what officials say, the borders are open and millions of them have showed up in the last couple of years. Those are just the ones we know about.
CUELLAR: You know, if you look at the last two years, yes, you've had over 4.3 million individuals that have been encountered by Border Patrol. That doesn't include that getaways. So far, as of Friday, we had about a 2 percent increase. At the same time, we've had over -- I think it's about 1.2 million individuals so far, and the fiscal year still not over.
So, people are coming in. And, again, I go back. You've got a make that decision at the border because if you don't make that decision at the border, they are going to come in either taxpayers' dollars like Governor Abbott is doing, or they're going to be flying in or going through other buses.
They're going to come in to the interior. And once they into the interior, and let me talk about New York -- there's about 10 cities who are most of those migrants are going. New York is number one, and when they give those notice to report, that is to ICE, not before an immigration court, in New York City, it's going to be until 2033, 2033. That's ten years --
BREAM: I mean, that's -- that's just unsustainable.
CUELLAR: -- before they even go to a judge. I agree, I agree, we've got to have consequences.
BREAM: Right. I mean, if we're asking people to do things the legal way.
I want to put something up. This is another recent FOX News poll we had just out on how the president is doing on any number of issues. On the issue of immigration, 36 percent approval how he's doing, 61 percent disapprove. That is a 2-1 margin.
The White House is blaming Congress. They say you guys are not getting the job done on reforming this issue.
But how much blame do you think the White House bears? Because the American people seemed to think the president has a big problem on his hands.
CUELLAR: Look, let me put it this way -- President Obama did not have immigration reform. He pushed for DACA, which I support. And I support -- I support full immigration reform.
But there were no changes in the laws or under President Obama. He was able to use Title 8, which is the current law instead of Title 42, and he was able to treat people with respect, but if they had to be returned, he sent them back. He had images of airplanes going back.
Right now, the only image that we see is people coming in. No images of people going back. So, yes, the American public is frustrated.
Now, the administration needs to go to the center, and I've asked them to go to the center, and I think some of the policies that they're about to implement brings them to the center, in my opinion, a little bit too late, but at least they're getting policies that will come to the center.
BREAM: Do they take your calls, Congressman, the White House?
CUELLAR: Look, I haven't called the White House. I called -- I talked to Secretary Mayorkas, Troy Miller and other folks, the border patrol chiefs at the border. I go directly to Homeland because a lot of them are career people, and we've got to make sure that the career people have a say so at the table.
And again, it's okay to listen immigration activists, but you got to listen to the men and women in green and blue from Homeland, and you certainly have to listen to the border communities like Laredo, Texas, because we're taking the brunt of what's happening down here at the border.
BREAM: Yeah, that is a reality, and God bless those men and women in uniform doing their absolute best there.
Congressman, thank you. Good to see you again.
CUELLAR: Thank you, Shannon. It's a pleasure.
BREAM: This week, congressional leaders head to the White House to try to make a deal on paying the nation's bills. If they can't, the U.S. government faces a possible default. Up next, we'll explain exactly how that could affect you.
And we'll bring in the chairman of the House Budget Committee on whether the two parties can find common ground.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BREAM: The treasury secretary warns the U.S. could run out of money to pay our bills by June, and there are only a handful of working days on Capitol Hill left in May.
In a moment, we'll bring in the House Budget Committee chairman, Republican Jodey Arrington, on the top trade-offs both parties are now facing.
But, first, Lucas Tomlinson live at the White House with a look at what could happen to you at home if they can't reach a deal.
Hey, Lucas.
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Shannon. President Biden says the Republican bill which raises that that limit by $1.5 trillion and includes some spending cuts is a nonstarter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not a deadbeat nation. We pay our bills.
TOMLINSON (voice-over): President Biden demanding Republicans raise the debt ceiling without spending cuts, despite the U.S. being over $31 trillion in debt.
BIDEN: The two are totally unrelated. Whether you pay the debt or not doesn't have a damn thing to do with what your budget is.
TOMLINSON: A new Washington Post/ABC News poll shows more Republicans agree with the president than disagree, 46 percent want the debt ceiling and spending cuts handled separately.
Republicans Senator Mike Lee says at least 42 GOP senators won't raise the debt limit without the cuts. "The Wall Street Journal" says House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's bill will cut $3.2 trillion over the next decade, out of more than $60 trillion in expected spending, hardly austere.
The White House warns even a brief default could trigger a spike in interest rates, crash the stock market and cause nearly 2 million Americans to lose their jobs.
Social Security and Medicare payments could also be delayed.
And Democrats say U.S. adversaries are watching closely.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): The Chinese communist party is rooting for House Republicans to drag this country into a default.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TOMLINSON (on camera): President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy are set to meet here at the White House on Tuesday -- Shannon.
BREAM: All right. Lucas, thank you very much.
Joining me now, Texas Republican congressman, chair of the House Budget Committee, Jodey Arrington.
Congressman, welcome to "FOX News Sunday".
REP. JODEY ARRINGTON (R-TX): Good morning. Good morning, Shannon.
BREAM: Okay. If we don't get a deal soon, we're facing default. Here is one "Washington Post" headlines. It says: What would U.S. default actually look like? Quote, financial Armageddon.
The author then walks through all the things that could happen -- spiking interest rates, devalued and disrespected dollar, stock markets plummeting. Ends with this line: If you're not afraid yet, you should be.
Do the Republicans acknowledge what could come with the default? Are you worried about it?
ARRINGTON: Well, Republicans have put a responsible debt ceiling proposal together and passed it out of the House. So, there's plenty of time for the Democrats to respond to it. We've lifted the debt ceiling in our proposal, we'll pay our bills and protect the good faith and credit of the United States.
But we're not going to give any politicians, including the president, a blank check to continue to bankrupt the country. I mean, $10 trillion over the last two years, six of which has gone to the national debt paid. Our debt trajectory is completely unsustainable and our nation's health is rapidly deteriorating.
So we're going to go from skyrocketing prices and cost-of-living crisis, soaring interest rates, an economy that's nose-diving into a recession, to the brink of a sovereign debt crisis, which will undermine everything from our economy, to our security, to our children's future in this country.
So, we can do both. These aren't mutually exclusive.
The president knows that, Shannon. He has negotiated as vice president and as a senator debt ceiling increases, with commonsense spending controls and fiscal reforms. And we're just asking him to be a responsible leader and do that again.
BREAM: Well, you heard him say that racing that that ceiling and budget cuts have never been tied together. And this will be the first time in history. You have this morning, the treasury secretary out there saying it would be a constitutional crisis if Congress doesn't act.
The president says defaulting would immediately kills 750,000 U.S. jobs, but the package you all have offered which does raise the debt ceiling temporarily, he says it would cut 100,000 teachers jobs, cut 28,000 federal law enforcement agencies, and take away the government's ability to negotiate lower drug prices.
Is that accurate or is the president lying?
ARRINGTON: It's not true down the list.
Number one, the president negotiated spending cuts but cut cap-and-balance, which was the 10-year discretionary spending caps in 2011. So, one of the anchors to our spending controls is the right size of bureaucracy by returning to '22 levels of spending. So, that's not true.
In fact, some of the best fiscal reforms have come out of debt ceiling negotiations.
The American people are suffering with Biden spending-induced inflation. They're having to tighten their belts. They're changing their spending habits. Three out of four Americans expect this president and all of their elected leaders to do the same.
And I think half of Democrats -- Democrat voters -- expected this president would come to the negotiating table in good faith and make sure that we bend that spending curve, we put our country on better financial footing and we do something to tamp down the inflation that is devastating working families.
Their budgets are being cut. Their paychecks are shrinking, and they're just hanging on living paycheck to paycheck, meanwhile, this president and Chuck Schumer have a death grip on a blank check.
I mean, they are not fighting for the American people, Shannon. They're fighting for status quo and status quo is bankrupting the country, and Republicans in the House and those in the Senate that signed that letter refuse to do -- to allow the status quo to continue.
BREAM: To be fair, Republicans when they have been running the show has spent a lot of money, too, despite the talk about being fiscal conservatives, they've run up that check, too.
So here we are. What you all are proposing in the House, you did get something passed, will call for drastic cuts.
Here's how "The Washington Post" describes it. It says: the bill calls for reducing overall discretionary spending by nearly 10 percent from 2023 to 2024. Defense is off the table. So, Republicans essentially would need to double the cuts in non-defense discretionary spending to achieve the $1.47 trillion in annual spending target.
"The Post" says, essentially, you've created a brutal hunger games scenario. So where do these cuts come from?
ARRINGTON: Well, think about it. We -- to go back '22 spending levels is to go back to spending levels last year. Where was the apocalyptic rhetoric from Democrats then and all their phantom funding cuts?
The CBO, before COVID, projected we'd be spending hundreds of billions of dollars less than we're spending today. So our government, Shannon, has grown by 40 percent since we entered COVID, and we've got to right size the bloat and the waste in our bureaucracy, number one.
Number two, there are reckless spending -- spending spree initiatives by this president that need to be reversed. We don't need 87,000 IRS agents to close the tax gap.
We don't need COVID money -- there's tens of billions of COVID moneys that have been hanging out there for two years. The public emergency is over, and we need to take that money back, put it towards the Treasury and children's future.
And, finally, the Democrats overwhelmingly supported welfare to work in '96. President Bill Clinton signed it. And we're saying we have a labor shortage, we have to come out of recession and we don't want to trap people in dependency on the government.
Able-bodied adults receiving public assistance should be looking for job or working. That's a fundamental responsibility and an expectation certainly of the American people.
BREAM: Well, and just to clarify, in saying you want to come back to fiscal caps from '22, as "The Washington Post" points out, that would mean cutting back from where we were in '23, that's where Democrats get the line that there are cuts.
ARRINGTON: There is so much wasteful Washington spending and bloat coming out of COVID that --
BREAM: Okay, but cuts, to be fair.
ARRINGTON: Yeah, no, we're going to reduce spending. The president in his budget wants to increase spending by $100 billion in discretionary and more than that, trillions of dollars in nondiscretionary mandatory spending.
I mean, it's the spending from this administration, the trillions of dollars, that has ignited the inflationary firestorm that Americans are suffering from. Of course, we need to right size and return to reasonable levels of spending. And we also need to get the economy growing again, get back to pro-growth, pro-work, pro-energy policies that will leash American prosperity, like we were enjoying pre-Covid.
BREAM: Chairman, quickly, before we go, can you give us a timeline on when the formal budget but the House GOP will be out?
ARRINGTON: Well, I can. I can tell you that President Biden submitted his 30 days late.
BREAM: Right.
ARRINGTON: And we're still conducting oversight.
BREAM: OK.
ARRINGTON: But we're still conducting oversight hearings. This president hasn't had oversight in two years. But we're well underway with our budget. It's a 10-year budgetary framework. And it will certainly contrast the highest sustained levels of spending, taxing and borrowing that were reflected in President Biden's budget.
But the most urgent matter right now is the debt ceiling, making sure we lift it responsibly, we pay our bills and we put fiscal controls in place. And - and this president's done it. We now have a bill that we've sent to the Senate and we're asking our colleagues to be responsible, do the right thing by the American people who are going the same thing as a result of reckless spending and failed economic policies, mainly from this administration and mainly over the last two years.
BREAM: Yes, and we know that those of us at home, and you, we can't run our personal budgets this way. So, America is cheering for Washington to figure this out.
Chairman, thank you.
ARRINGTON: Thank you, Shannon.
BREAM: Up next, we're going to bring in our Sunday group on what's behind a huge drop in us test scores on history and civics.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just heard all this popping. So, we kind of just all just stopped. But then a second later, like, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And we saw sparks flying. We just ran into the Converse store. They locked the door. We all hunkered down in the back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: A witness to that horrific, deadly shooting in Allen, Texas, describing the moments after gunmen opened fire at an outlet mall on Saturday, killing at least eight people, many in the hospital, several others injured. A police officer shot and killed the suspect.
Time now for our Sunday group.
"USA Today" White House correspondent Francesca Chambers, former House speaker, Newt Gingrich, also the author of "March to the Majority," which is in stores on June 6th, Fox News senior political analyst, Juan Williams, and host of "The Getting Hammered" podcasts, might be the best title ever, Mary Katharine Ham.
Welcome to all of you.
So we, obviously, are rattled, heartbroken, angry about the news about yet another mass shooting in Texas. I want to put up a recent Fox News poll that we've got here. Passing stricter gun laws will make you feel what? Forty-three percent said safer, 25 percent said less safe, no difference, 31 percent. The interesting thing to me, we talked about this last week, that number on making you feel safer has trended down, Mary Katharine. So, people don't have confidence in more laws solving the problem.
MARY KATHARINE HAM, AUTHOR AND SPEAKER, "GETTING HAMMERED" PODCAST HOST: Well, a lot of the conversation after these is always, well, we haven't done anything since such and such, but it's often not true. There have been, 2017, the NICS Improvement Act, 2018, Fix NICS Act, which has some of this reporting on mental health, 2022, bipartisan safety - Safer Communities Act, right? So, we do pass things. Those things consider the fact that the Second Amendment does not allow you to do what much of the left would like to, which is ban guns, which is what would make them feel safer.
I think what - that's one of their obstacles. The other obstacle is that the -- the fastest growing segments of gun owners and gun buyers, new ones, are African Americans, African American females, females in general, Asian Americans, and it's because they look at the world and say, the world is dangerous, I will arm myself, instead of, the world is dangerous, you make laws to disarm me.
BREAM: Francesca, any - any appetite at all on Capitol Hill. I mean they got something passed last year, but it seems like there's not much will to do something more.
FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, "USA TODAY" WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And President Biden says that he's exhausted his executive authority. I would expect that you would hear President Biden again call for stricter background checks in response to this, as well as ban on assault weapons. He wants safer storage laws.
But to your point, this is an issue that Capitol Hill just cannot seem to agree on what the pathway forward would be.
BREAM: Well, they also don't agree on a number of things, including the Biden family.
I want to play something from the president Friday night talking about the scrutiny into his son, the investigations into Hunter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First of all, my son has done nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him. And it impacts my presidency feel proud of him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: Now that comes against this headline from "The Washington Post," prosecutors near charging decision in Hunter Biden case.
Mr. Speaker, where do we go from here?
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's - you know, people have to render their own judgment. First of all, I have no faith in the Justice Department. My hunch is he'll get some kind of minor plea bargain that's irrelevant. The underlying evidence that's coming out, particularly from the House Republicans who have subpoena power is, millions of dollars went to the Biden family, period. I mean that's just a fact. Millions of dollars went to the Biden family.
Now, you can get into arguments about legality, illegality. The vice president of the United States, through his son and his brother, was part of a process in which millions of dollars went to their family. In any reasonable judgment, that is corrupt and it's closer, frankly - I mean, you have a corrupt man telling you he doesn't mind his corrupt son. What do you think he's going to say?
BREAM: Well, Democrats on The Hill say that there's been a lot of bluster there about these family relationships and the money, but they say so far it has proven nothing wrong. Now we have this letter from Senator Grassley, Congressman Comer, to the FBI and to the DOJ saying this, based on disclosures from a highly credible whistleblower, it's come to our attention DOJ and FBI possess an unclassified FD-1023 form that describes an alleged criminal scheme involving then Vice President Biden and a foreign national relating to the exchange of money for policy decisions.
Juan, it's an accusation. We have no idea what that form says.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Correct. I think you - you're on the money, Shannon. And what Senator Grassley said, we don't know -- he doesn't know if it's true or untrue. So, what do we have here? We have more innuendo, we have more distractions, it seems to me, from Trump's legal troubles, which are everywhere but which clearly we are persuading the Republican side an agenda of saying, you know what, Biden, you've - you put out your tax records for the last 25 years but, oh, Newt says millions have flow - you know, we don't have any reason to say that.
But everything is done. We know Hunter Biden's an addict. We know he's an alcoholic. We know he's had sex addiction problems. We know he's not the son that you would have. But Joe Biden has acted as a father trying to protect his son and trying to help his son. I don't think anyone's going to fault him for that.
But you compare that to the graft and the grifting for Trump golf courses, Trump hotels, Chinese shoe deals with the daughter, the son-in-law getting billions from the Saudis. It's unbelievable. Even this week you have to compare it to the trouble we've heard about in New York with a sexual assault case against Trump. But this is what Hunter Biden has come down to now. He is a distraction, a shield against all the trouble that Trump is experiencing.
BREAM: Newt, I see you itching to respond. I mean there are a lot of allegations about both of these families are these legal business ventures.
GINGRICH: Look - look, I'm not itching - here are -- here are facts. They may be legal. Here are facts. The widow of the Moscow mayor (ph) sent millions of dollars to Hunter Biden. He got money from Kazakhstan. He got money from Ukraine and served on a board about which he knew nothing. He got a lot of money from China. And it's a fact, Juan, that there were $3 million that has been disclosed that went to the Biden family from a Chinese billionaire. That is a fact.
Now, you - you can decide that none of this stuff matters.
WILLIAMS: No.
GINGRICH: But the fact is, you have the vice president of the United States taking his son on Air Force Two into China where his son was making business deals. And you just described his son. Your language, he's a sex addict, he's an alcoholic, he's a drug addict. (INAUDIBLE) -
WILLIAMS: What does that say -- is that an attack on - is that on a -- you're attacking the president?
GINGRICH: No, I'm -
WILLIAMS: He's not the president. He's the son.
GINGRICH: No, I'm just saying, given your description of Hunter -
BREAM: But - but you were also talking about -
WILLIAMS: What I'm saying to you is that nepotism is not a crime.
GINGRICH: Wait a second.
WILLIAMS: You look at the nepotism in every president and everything in this family, but that's not a crime.
BREAM: But, Juan, you - you brought up the Trump family. So, is there a double standard here?
WILLIAMS: When I call out the Trump family?
BREAM: Well, you're saying that - look at Hunter Biden because --
WILLIAMS: What I know about - I know -- I don't know about - look, I think you have a son, Joe Biden's son Hunter, who might make some business deals. Newt describes this as millions flowing to the family. Kind of an, you know, amorphous. But I know specifically of $2 billion that went to Jared Kushner. Nobody's going to argue about that.
BREAM: All right. We're --
GINGRICH: But my only point is, if you listen to his description of Hunter, why would anyone invest in Hunter? They were investing in Joe.
BREAM: Well, there are a lot of questions that we do not have answered, and we can't answer on this panel, but maybe we'll see more documents and get some answers.
All right, panel, stick around. Up next, we're going to dig into the latest series of ethics concerns facing the Supreme Court, including new questions about actions by one of the Democrat appointed justices.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But, look, I just think that Vice President Harris hasn't gotten the credit she deserves. She was the attorney general of the state of California. She has been a United States senator. She is really very, very good. And with everything going on, she hasn't gotten the attention she deserves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BREAM: President Biden emphasizing what he says are his vice president's strengths as they both try to make a case for a second term.
We are back now with the panel.
And, Francesca, you got a piece just out this morning on this effort to sort of rehab and shore up the vice president, but people asking questions, is it too little too late.
CHAMBERS: Well, some Democrats are upset, Shannon, because these are attacks that have been going on, on Vice President Harris for the last two years, but the White House only just began to take it truly seriously one President Biden and Kamala Harris, the vice president, decided to announce their re-election bid. And so there's some fear that at this point it's way too late to claw back.
Now, there are some Democrats who see how many people still say they don't know much about her and say they can still boost her numbers, Shannon, but - but other Democrats just feel that at this point it would be very, very difficult to change the narrative about her.
BREAM: Well, and, Mary Katharine, she's been -- she's gotten some difficult assignments. I mean nobody's solved the border in decades of that. That's kind of been one of her things. So, the talk is now of giving her assignments where it's a better topic from her. She's doing AI. She's always talked about abortion. I mean that seems to be one of the ones that resonates with their core audience.
HAM: I think the abortion issue is not bad for her and it's something that can work to raise her profile and it's something she can do well. Putting her in charge of AI, I don't know if she's as good as that as she was at the border. We might all be under Skynet (ph) and none of this will matter in like a year. But I think what she's -
BREAM: The bots are coming.
HAM: Harris is good for Republicans because she's important to that ticket because of Biden's age and because of the polling that shows that some 70 percent of Americans are not looking forward to him running again. So, she's an important figure. She must make a case for herself. And she refuses to do so because every time she speaks in public, she is not making the case, either on substance or in her style.
CHAMBERS: When it comes - I was going to say, when it comes to the issues, it seems now that their strategy is to try and put her with President Biden in some of these scenarios. They went to lunch together on Friday as one example.
BREAM: Tacos.
CHAMBERS: They went to lunch together on Friday. They were also in his investing in America cabinet meeting. So they've really been playing up that relationship. But they do also intend to put her on the road more in settings where she can talk about things like abortion rights, also in front of young people and progressives, which are demographic groups where she has high approval ratings.
BREAM: Well, the president is upside down in his approval ratings and she's even low than he is. So, there is a rehab game going on, as you said, to be done there.
I want to make sure that we get to the Supreme Court because we talked about this last week. There are new headlines and new allegations this week, including in "The Washington Post," saying that in January 2012, Leonard Leo instructed the GOP pollster, Kellyanne Conway, to bill a nonprofit group he advises and use that money to pay Ginni Thomas, documents show. That same year the nonprofit, the Judicial Education Project, filed a brief to the Supreme Court in a landmark voting rights case.
Newt, Kellyanne Conway says she was a contractor for her and she was paid for work that she did, but "The Washington Post" says that there are a lot of questions about where that money flowed to and from.
GINGRICH: I think that's legitimate and they ought to be transparent about that. On the other hand, if you look at the number of spouses who do legitimate, honorable work while their husband or wife is in a significant position, she - Ginni Thomas would just be one more of probably 200 or 300 names.
BREAM: So, you still have questions?
GINGRICH: Look, I think people have a right to know and I think it does raise questions about whether or not the Supreme Court itself needs to adopt things. But, remember, under our Constitution, the Congress can't control the Supreme Court. That would be an enormous threat to our safety.
BREAM: Well, yes, they do have the purse strings. And so that is one of the opportunities they have to call them in when they're talking about budgets for the judicial branch, that kind of thing.
Leonard Leo said this to "The Washington Post" about this article. He said, the work she did here did not involve anything connected with either the court's business or with other legal issues. Of the effort to keep Thomas' name off paperwork, Leo said, knowing how disrespectful, malicious and gossipy people can be, I've always tried to protect the privacy of Justice Thomas and Ginni.
So, Juan, what about that, that spouses here in Washington, there are an innumerable number of couples here who they're both doing high profile stuff?
WILLIAMS: This is a public office. There is a tremendous amount of trust of the justices of the Supreme Court to act on the basis of law and not on the basis of rich patrons that they're beholden to. And when we're talking about Leonard Leo, Leonard Leo is a very powerful man when it comes to the Supreme Court. He's had a hand in not only shaping nominees to the court, specifically the last three under President Trump, but even before then through The Federalist Society. But he has also shaped the agenda, pushed conservative concerns to the forefront of cases that the court has had to rule on and has shaped as a result a lot of the laws that we know today, in America, including this morning, you know, easy access to guns.
But I would say that the case here is that Supreme Court justices, based on who they are, all have perks in terms of book deals and we've heard criticisms of Sotomayor's book deal and why she didn't recuse herself on the Random House deal.
BREAM: Right.
WILLIAMS: But, to me, that is markedly different - markedly different than saying, oh, you know what, we're going to keep Ginni Thomas' name off of this, no disclosure, and money is going to flow into her pocketbook and into her family's, just like the Thomas - you know, the money going to pay for the son - or the guardian - he was guardian for a child, for that private education. This is not healthy for that institution.
HAM: Juan, I'm glad that we're talking about those two together because they are sort of analogous. You're talking about someone getting money from a source that may have had an interest in front of the court. Random House did several times. My question is whether anyone is actually interested in applying the same rules to everyone. This seems like - I think the legal term is a hissy fit about the fact that the left is not in charge of the court anymore and not about ethics.
BREAM: We've got to leave it there, but, panel, thank you very much. We'll see you next Sunday.
Up next, the U.S. surgeon general says America has a loneliness epidemic. Author Deepak Chopra joins us to talk about that, finding peace in what feel like very troubled times in his brand new book.
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BREAM: Deepak Chopra is one of the world's leading voices in meditation, mindfulness and spirituality. He's written more than 90 books. His latest "Living in the Light" explores achieving mental health through the ancient practice of royal yoga. He joins us now.
Welcome to FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR, "LIVING IN THE LIGHT": Thank you, Shannon. It's nice to be with you.
BREAM: Listen, this is a time where the world feels very dark. You talk about living in light. How do we get there. How do you reassure people that there is light?
CHOPRA: When I say living in the light, it means the light of awareness, not the mind, not the intellect, not the ego (ph), but that which is deeper as presence in the midst of the activity of the mind, intellect and ego (ph).
And yoga is the way to live in the light. So the eight limbs of yoga includes social and emotional intelligence. That you, of course, use also include the postures. Many breathing techniques to regulate the autoimmune - the immune system - the autonomic nervous system and also ways to decrease inflammation, cause self-regulation, decrease any kind of turbulent activity in the body, but ultimately to get to the source of all the experience. So there are practices including what we call introceptive (ph) awareness, withdrawal of the senses, meditation, mindfulness, vagal (ph) stimulation, and transcendence, which are usually not spoken about in the usual yoga literature, at least in -- in the public domain that I see in the United States. So, it was time to write a book about the real purpose of yoga and how it enhances our intuition and creativity and insight and higher consciousness.
BREAM: I think - and in -- the book is very thorough, and I think a lot of it is about slowing down, being more mindful, as you said. I've tried yoga a couple times. I'm terrible at it. I should take another effort at it after reading your book. But what do you say to people who are skeptics or who don't get what it is. It sounds a little bit out there to them about how it can help in everyday life.
CHOPRA: I think even if you start a simple practice, which is, before you get overrun by a situation, you press the pause button and observe your reaction to react. I have frequently also advised people about something that is called the Stop Formula, s-t-o-p. Just stop, take three deep breaths, smile from your head to your toe, observe your breath, and then proceed with compassion and kindness. That's a good way to start.
BREAM: Well, and as you said today, as we were talking, before you came on, that you always try to operate in a place of light, of positivity. Is that realistic for most of us? Can we do it?
CHOPRA: Yes, I think. You just have to have the intention every day to start your day with a joyful, energetic body, a loving, compassionate heart, clear mind and lightness of being, and then let your day organize itself around those four intentions.
BREAM: And you talk in the book about how it will bring you to things that you want. And you don't necessarily mean earthly success, earthly wealth. You talk about what we're really looking for, many of us, is peace and just the tools we may - we need to face the day.
CHOPRA: Human beings are purpose driven. So, you know, when we talk about success, it does include the progressive realization of (INAUDIBLE) goals (ph), but also the ability to love and have compassion and, most importantly, always be in touch with your creative center. There's no problem that cannot be solved by collective creativity. So, I believe in inclusion, maximum diversity, shared vision, and then complementing everybody's strengths. There's no problem that cannot be solved.
BREAM: So, if it is something that makes us slow down, be more intentional, be kinder to each other and look for solutions, that sounds very positive. The book is called "Living in the Light."
Deepak Chopra, thank you for joining us.
CHOPRA: Thank you very much, Shannon.
BREAM: OK, I'm going to have to slow down.
And just a quick note, my podcast, "Livin the Dream" drops this morning. While the recording industry has dubbed her the most awarded female comedian of all-time, Chonda Pierce joins me to talk about her new movie out this week, "Roll With It." It's a labor of love written with her late husband. Trust me, you're going to crack up. And if you want to, you can hear all of today's program, all of the interview on the FOX NEWS SUNDAY podcast. You can download and subscribe at foxnewspodcasts.com or wherever you like to get your podcasts.
That is it for today. We thank you so much for joining us. I'm Shannon Bream. Have a safe weekend and we'll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
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